Why is the new york times the best
The New York Times Bestseller List is Full of Lies
hello everyone Alexa down here and today
I am going to be demystifying the New
York Times best seller list I'm going to
be dashing hopes and ruining dreams or
really just putting an end to some
unfortunate gas lighting
I mean honestly hopefully giving you
some peace of mind what I am sharing
with you today is one of those secrets
that is not a secret in publishing but a
thing that is not as widely discussed as
it probably should be and that is the
known fact that the New York Times best
seller list is not just a list of the
best-selling books it's not just about
sales there are so many other factors
that go into something making the New
York Times bestseller list and some of
them are mysterious and some of them are
deeply frustrating and most of it isn't
particularly fair essentially the New
York Times bestseller list is not really
a meritocracy because seriously it's not
just about who is selling the most
number of books so I'm going to be
sharing some conventional wisdoms about
how the New York Times bestseller list
works also some pure conjecture because
part of the problem is is that some of
it's very mysterious and so we talked
amongst ourselves and publishing as to
what how we think it works and mostly
what I really want to debunk for a lot
of you is the double-edged sword of
wanting to list feelings when you don't
list or feelings when you do and placing
undue value on the idea of being a New
York Times best seller because once you
understand how kind of nebulous and
borderline unfair it is I hope you have
a healthier attitude about Hennig or not
hitting the lists and this of course is
coming from me Alexa Dunn an author who
has not had the New York Times
bestseller list and never expected to
and probably never will I just want to
say that I know I've never had the list
and that I promise I'm not unduly bitter
i legit have never expected to hit the
list but mostly because i've actually
understand how the list works and
genuinely I think once you have a better
sense I mean you'll be like vaguely
frustrated especially when you have
friends who almost make it and don't
that is actually the worst I do have
friends who
almost but not quite made the list and
then of course I have friends who have
made the list I personally think it
makes you feel better once you kind of
understand how it works though you'll
never really understand how it works
let's let's just jump right in so the
main thing to know that I've kind of
covered is the New York Times best
seller list is a curated list it is not
purely based on sales it is curated
based on a number of factors some known
some less known or unknown that the
staff at the New York Times the editors
at the New York Times whoever manages
the New York Times bestseller list they
have this alchemy that they put together
to make the magical elusive near at
times bestseller list
it is a known thing in the industry that
the list is curated like this is not a
shock to anyone who is in the publishing
industry it does tend to come as a shock
to everyone outside of it because I mean
by the title the assumption is oh these
are the these are the best-selling books
no it's not that simple every book that
makes the list is of course selling a
lot of copies it's just not the only
factor and especially there's nuance in
the positioning on the list so to give
you a real example that is heavily
anonymized two books come out the third
week of September not with the real week
and both books sell about 5,000 copies
book a debuts at number one on the New
York Times bestseller list and book B is
not on the list at all not even second
third fourth or fifth and there are
books on the list that sold only 2,000
copies are 3,000 copies look B is
completely shut on the list even though
book a and book B have more or less the
same sales this is something that has
happened continues to happen and will
happen in the future because position on
the list making the list at all is not
just about raw number of copies sold so
I want to talk about some of the
important factors known and unknown so
no one speculated that go into making
the list starting with the things that
we know are factors in listing sales of
or sales though I've heard that it's not
strictly sales I've heard it's actually
technically copy shipped so the volume
of books shipped to specific stores for
sale I've heard then conflicting reports
of whether it's no no it really is the
literal number of copies sold that week
versus no no it's about copy shipped so
somewhere in the middle of that is your
answer but that said we do know that
number of copies shipped is important
distribution numbers are important and
when a book has a particular print run
and is having a certain number of copies
go to store specific stores which I'm
going to talk about in a second we do
know that that makes a difference you
can tell when a book has a good shot at
listing based on these things the next
factor that we know is that some book
stores or points of sale matter more
than others there are key reporting
stores to the New York Times so these
are specific book stores some are
definitely known widely others are less
known at least to outsiders I don't know
what they call are but the publishers
definitely know and those key reporting
stores to the New York Times the stock
that they have the buzz that they report
and the actual number of copies sold
makes a big difference to the list
I mentioned buzz so another thing that I
have heard that happens is the New York
Times well literally sometimes call key
reporting stores in these stores and ask
what's buzzy what's moving off the
shelves what are people buying so the
trusted opinions of key book sellers can
make a difference to something listing
so it is possible for strong support
from book stores specifically in the
book stores to make a difference in a
book listing this is how we get a lot of
really feel good success stories of a
book not necessarily having a ton of
buzz but developing buzz doing
incredibly well and week one of sales
with buzz from book stores or sometimes
it's week two that it less
it is possible for the little book that
could to make the New York Times
bestseller list based on groundswell of
support but then there are a number of
factors that are more speculative we
don't know for sure that these happen or
how big of a difference that they make
but definitely there I mentioned buzz
already there can be a prestige factor
to titles that can make a difference in
how likely they are to list there's all
sorts of other speculation that I'm too
scared to share in a video but the
summary I want to give you is that
there's all sorts of speculation behind
the scenes that sometimes it's just down
to how much the New York Times likes an
author and that there's all sorts of
stuff that goes on there the thing is
none of us can prove it and no one wants
to say any of that speculation out loud
hi because honestly it sounds catty but
at the same time I can tell you that
behind the scenes in publishing we all
talk about the list and why we think
certain books listed especially if you
hear that it wasn't the strongest seller
but maybe it had the the prestige or the
nd store support sometimes it's super
obvious that something sold a million
copies and other times it's just kind of
like you're pretty sure sales aren't the
number one contributing factor in
something listing but you can't quite
put together
concretely why it did you're always
happy for people listing unless they're
your mortal enemy but we do talk behind
the scenes about the composition of the
list we've also been talking a lot
lately about how there's been very
little movement on the list but I'm
gonna talk about that later another
thing that is definitely known in the
industry like it's known we talked about
it is that certain publishers and
imprints definitely gain the list more
than others because you can game the
list because of key reporting stores and
copies shipped in conjunction with sales
and pretty sure publishers that know
exactly which stores are the key
reporting stores and approximately how
many copies need to be shipped to give
something a really good go at the list
also
there's just specific kinds of marketing
and publicity they can do in the run-up
to a release of the title that gives it
a better chance of listing because of
word-of-mouth and getting people to hand
sell it in the store there are certain
imprints and publishers that really
prioritize getting specific titles
usually lead titles to lists and they
have a complex set of factors and things
that they can and do do to push books to
success on the list and what ends up
happening is that we know inside the
industry that certain imprints and
publishers go to get things on the list
more than others it's a priority to
certain imprints and publishers more
than others and so your experience of
how much your book is pushed to lists
can just differ depending on who is
publishing you so it just it's not
always you and whether your book is
worthy of listing and selling enough
copies it's just different strategy
depending on the publisher and the
imprint and I say this so that no one
out there blames themselves if they
don't end up with the runaway bestseller
New York Times best-selling book even
though they tried their hardest their
publisher supported them that they could
have made it if sometimes luckily it is
just out of your control but also
sometimes a book is lightning in a
bottle and it just develops that
groundswell of buzz and it lists because
it just it ascends and a ton of people
buy it
so they're it's really complicated all
the factors that go into the list but
these are things that are talked about
behind the scenes in the industry which
brings me to Laney saram so Laney serum
aka handbook for mortals was a whole
thing about two years ago a little over
two years ago I think where someone who
came out of nowhere
debuted at number one on the New York
Times bestseller list for the book
literally no one had ever heard of and
the whole thing exploded where we
figured out that she had figured out how
to game the list and she did game the
list she basically ordered massive
amounts of stock books from specific
reporting bookstores like she bought
them herself that's definitely one way
to do it publishers don't do that by the
way and she basically popped up
a data point and they put her at number
one on the list clearly without checking
anything and within hours people were on
Twitter like what is going on who is
this person we've never heard of this
book and they ended up correcting the
problem but it kind of blew the list
wide open and all of a sudden people who
weren't in the know before were like
wait this means the list can be gamed
meanwhile people like me over here like
yeah we knew this this is I thought I
genuinely thought it was funny I thought
it was really really funny that a no one
with a book basically beat us at her own
game she proved that it was possible and
we know it's possible and it happens all
the time and so I found that whole thing
amusing I know I probably shouldn't but
I did and actually that's what made it
far more acceptable and comfortable for
us to talk about publicly some a little
bit publicly within measure about the
mystery of the list what the list
actually means and it was the first time
we did I'll talk about it clearly
doesn't genuinely only mean that real
consumers buy books in large volume it's
specific stores it's talk it's all sorts
of things obviously she didn't have buzz
and all of that kind of stuff up she
wasn't actually curated for the list but
she came to the system on the stock and
sales order side because it is
definitely possible and really I think
it deigned confidence in the list and in
some ways I think that's a good thing
but to that end a new kind of issue that
we've been facing and this is all in the
way a world I don't play in the whorls
of adult bestsellers or anything like
that this is all young adult fiction
we've definitely noticed a phenomenon
over the last year or so where there's
just very little movement in the titles
on the yf-- sellers list it's the same
five or six books they kind of move in
position but very little comes in that's
new almost no 2019 debuts for example
have listed that's made a lot of us
speculate on the back end like are there
new factors going into the list that we
don't know about that are
impacting the list maybe they put in
place to stop someone like Lanie serum
from taking advantage it's possible and
honestly to that end like this this is
only getting peer lis into my opinion
but also my reassurances to you watching
about the value that you place in the
New York Times bestseller list in a way
it almost feels like it's lost its value
because we know that it's not just about
sales and it's the same books over and
over again very little movement nothing
new by the way this is a problem with
the list Oh years and years ago and then
they recalculated the way list to take
off paperback and move series and that
was the first time in a long time we'd
seen new things on the list but the same
thing has happened again where there's
no movement so I anticipate they're
gonna change the lists again but also
it's definitely impacted at least
internally and on in the industry a lot
of the confidence in the list it's
definitely interesting and I can say
that there have been a lot of
conversations behind the scenes of like
why there hasn't been a lot of movement
on the lists lately and whether we're
looking at another shake-up for the list
because when you know that it's not just
about sales that there are other factors
that go into listing such as buzz it's
both kind of mystifying but also a
little bit demoralizing so I want to
talk about feelings in the New York
Times it definitely used to be easier as
a young adult writer as a writer in this
space to make the list partly because
there used to be separate lists for
hardcover and ebook and when the e-book
list still existed you could list if
there was like a sale for your book and
you sold a bunch of copies in a short
period of time now it was done away with
in part because people thought it was
too easy to make the list by doing a big
sale which fair but at the same time it
means that now all we have is the
hardcover list in the series list and
the hardcover list has almost no
movement to it it's the same books over
and over again and it's you almost never
see something new on the list and when
you do its lucky if it gets more than
one week and so the question becomes
well maybe that's legitimately what's
selling
I'm so curious because there are certain
books on there like 5 feet apart a
tie-in book for a packaged it was
packaged they created the movie into the
book at the same time and I'm just like
who's reading it are you guys reading it
I haven't seen it on booktube at all
some of those things we're not a single
breathing human you know is reading a
book but it's listing week after week
and so you just kind of scratch your
head some books on the list make
complete sense you're like ah yes
everyone's talking about that book I
know it sold a ton of copies I'm so
happy that that book listed and you feel
that way about most of the books but
some of the books it's just like her I
mean that's how Laney is there I'm got
caught we were all like whoo but I think
there's less than this value in the list
because it is so opaque it's not
actually clear how things make the list
and it varies so widely I've heard about
books listing at nine hundred copies
sold and I have heard about books
listing at four to five thousand copies
sold to like make those lower spots on
the list it depends on the time of year
and it's just kind of like and as I said
there are cases where someone you know
makes it with X number and someone you
know with X number doesn't make it and
you're just kind of like what does that
even mean but what I want to leave you
with is not to pin your hopes and dreams
and aspirations on listing now I do want
to admit the double-edged sword
does listing matter yeah it does it book
doesn't it doesn't listing can make a
huge difference for a book listing even
just once but it's usually listing for
more than one week is what really makes
a difference to a book it can create a
momentum that legit turns it into a
runaway bestseller listing just one week
and being able to say something's in New
York Times bestseller it can be a
game-changer but just as often you'll
hear people caution you that you can be
a one time New York Times best seller
and not be home like a mega famous
best-selling author but it does or can
certainly make a difference it is
certainly a mark of prestige but at the
same time because
there are factors that are out of your
control and it's not just raw about
sales but also a book can be successful
without selling that many copies it can
just be really dangerous to be like I
won't feel I am valid or worthy or
successful unless I'm a New York Times
best seller just in this climate where
it's almost impossible to become one is
especially if you're comparing yourself
to older writers not that literally in
age but writers who have been around
longer because as I mentioned it used to
be easier to list on the ebook list
there are a ton of people who get to say
that they're near Times bestselling
author and it means they sold 3,000
ebooks at $2.99 four years ago so take
it with a grain of salt but I just think
so many people get so disappointed and
devastated because they don't make the
list I think the safest thing to do is
never expect to make the list never make
it a goal because it's something that's
so far out of your control and then if
you do a list it's just a great thing
that happened that's the thing anyone
who does lists should be incredibly
proud of themselves it does mean that
you've sold a lot of books by the way it
just means that that's not necessarily
the only factor in you making the list
so someone who does make the list should
be happy and proud but the flip of that
is that if you don't don't hate yourself
don't beat yourself up don't think that
you're not as good as someone else and
if you have made the list you're just an
outsider who thinks that the list is and
I'll be all don't think that the list
hitter is better than the non list
hitter I just think that those kinds of
value judgments are really dangerous
when it comes to the New York Times
bestseller list because of some of the
that goes on and what it means
and what it also doesn't mean I hope I
haven't blown too many minds as I
mentioned most of this is pretty well
understood in the industry we talk about
it all the time behind the scenes it's
definitely a complicated thing let me
know down below in the comments what do
you think have you long suspected this
about the list are you just like totally
shocked and give this video a thumbs up
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as always guys thank you so much for
watching and happy writing
