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Is Nerf Too Expensive? | Tag Talk Episode 1 Ft. WalcomS7

welcome to tag talk your source for

opinions and discussion on the nerf

hobby and community I'm jeger and with

me here today is Wacom s7 how you doing

welcome do a pretty good buddy about you

I am ecstatic that we are finally

getting to do this it has been years

since we started talking about this it's

been a long time I think you were asking

to do this before you did the tag back

episode where I was drunk and laying on

the couch I think you're right so yeah

it's been a while but we're here a long

time we got this going I'm glad so since

this is a new series let's talk about

how this format is gonna work this is a

pretty relaxed kind of casual discussion

format where we have a topic I know the

topic you know the topic because you can

see the topic up here but wall comm

doesn't know the topic so where does it

get exactly we're gonna get a very fresh

very real perspective and insight from

his initial thoughts on the topic and

we'll go from there all maybe play some

devil's advocate here and there to kind

of get some more thoughts and insight

but the idea is just a kind of casual

fun conversation so with that said let's

get into the first topic let's try not

to disagree too much and kill each other

because that would be terrible

yeah me if we go that far that may be a

little problematic gonna go that intense

hopefully all right our first topic is

is nerf getting too expensive and this

is a kind of broad topic but there's a

few ways we can go at it and that is in

the sense of the Hasbro nerf branded

toys are they getting too expensive is

the hobby getting too expensive for

newcomers or even general hobbyists as

we have usually been a lower-cost hobby

so there's a few ways to go at it and I

thought it would be an interesting place

to start where do you exactly wanna do

you want to leave this opportu to give

your thoughts so I can hit this at a

couple of different angles when it comes

from nerf as just the brand our nerf

blaster is becoming too expensive

there's obviously two sides to this

right you got the nerf stuff then you

got the nerf stuff

right and the best part about that is

regular nerf is trash

it is a dumpster fire right now I am

sorry we're hiking right into it

I am almost not excited for anything

like people were excited for the Percy's

and stuff like that but when I see

things like that I'm like I have a

prophecy I have a Prometheus I have a

nemesis

Percy's it's really cool I want one do I

own one no cuz it's a hundred dollars

don't wait until it's 40 bucks on Amazon

during it clear that's exactly my my

thought on the nerf branded stuff is I

the Percy's is the first nerf branded

blaster I have wanted in a long time but

when I saw that $100 price tag I was why

I I don't need it I don't I don't need

it I can spend a hundred bucks on a

hobby-grade blaster and have something

more personalized and the best example

that I can think of right now of nerf

just not understanding things is I saw a

boxed package of 60 rounds 60 rival

rounds and you're like wow that's a new

SKU I've never seen 60 rival rounds

before they wanted $13 and 88 cents at

Walmart so I'm assuming that's a $15

MSRP that would be that it's likely what

the case would be so let's say $15 for

60 rounds if you broke that down I'm

trying to think of how many cents per

round that is I'll save you some trouble

you can get like the tactical strike

rounds or they always can be cheaper

always gonna be cheaper and then you of

course you know got the proton rounds

from out of darts and all if you've got

plenty of options for them though a lot

of people do really like to stick with

the Hasbro brand adorable rounds because

they do seem to have a good consistency

to them compared to other offerings but

guilty I might have a conical them I

love them and that's just the case this

is one of those few occasions I think

where Hasbro actually kind of has

something that's like hey the other

brands aren't quite as good as this many

of the cases we can't really say that

but kudos Hasbro for having one thing

that you're doing really really well in

terms of quality and that's that

rounds that people aren't buying

speaking of other round or other

speaking of other brands that's the

other half of the solution I would say

is that while Busbee may have sort of

just slinked out of favor just a little

bit these last couple of years with

whatever Ben's going on with them

zoo and especially dart zone whether

it's you know targets dart zone or prime

time toys under the adventure forest

line whatnot absolutely has been killing

it yeah they put out consistently

interesting blasters at really really

good price points that price point thing

is huge and Hasbro's response to it has

not been the greatest in my mind their

whole kind of skeletonized low-end

blasters that don't do anywhere near as

much in terms of fun factor or

interesting engaging mechanics that some

of the other brands are doing at those

price points just it's almost

mind-boggling and the the falling back

on the number one blaster company

branding that they're going with now is

it's concerning I think is honestly the

way I would put it it's concerning for

the health of the brand because to me

that screams that they're kind of

scrambling and and trying to reassert

their dominance through marketing rather

than through actual products which maybe

this is a wrong take here but I I mean

that's just kind of my perspective from

someone who granted I haven't been as

involved in the last year or so so maybe

this isn't as you know finger on the

pulse as a year ago but it just kind of

feels that way right now I guess have

you ever read the box of the darts the

ultra darts have you ever heard the bong

snackage them a hand off the blaster

right the box I have not and now I'm

afraid to that you've mentioned it I

swear to crumb on the box it says flies

up to a hundred and twenty feet

obviously there's an Asterix there but

on the box for the darts

it says they fly up to 120 feet I mean

I'm sure if we put like them

three-stage flywheel setup it doesn't

matter

there's no that sounds like sake oh all

the lead darts have a hundred-foot

rageous here's the Maverick that's a

really good point as a really good way

to put it I was looking at in terms of

what would we need to do to get them to

go that far as opposed to why are they

being advertised as the performance

variable when they are not well that's

not that's actually not there that the

darts will obviously play a role in that

performance but they are not the thing

propelling themselves exactly

there are no new South contain oh yeah

so we were first topic we've already

gotten derailed from the the the common

little yeah so we're going deeper in the

night initially anticipated but I'm into

it I dig it the next part of your

question was is it getting too expensive

for newcomers to get into the hobby yes

and I would honestly say I don't think

we've ever been in a better position for

newcomers to get into the hobby okay

that is definitely a more interesting

reply than I necessarily anticipated

which makes me happy here and I think I

know why but I do want to hear your

thoughts before I kind of put things in

your mind there's a couple of different

reasons for that that I would say one of

them is that there are so many good easy

to mod blasters out now than there was

eight years ago when I kind of jump into

things it's way easier to go to like

Walmart and then stop by ace and then

come home and build something that hits

a hundred and fifty FPS that I couldn't

really do that before unless I was using

an air blaster like the rival knockout

that is one of the things where it's

like out of the box that's a pretty okay

blaster but it's a little finicky

annoying you spend maybe twelve dollars

in materials more if you don't have the

tool lots obviously but twelve bucks you

can get that thing hitting a hundred and

fifty hundred sixty I've seen people

with a hundred and eighty nine hundred

and ninety FPS claims on those are truly

impressive and I remember I was kind of

on the fence I'm like other cool would

be ten bucks I'll grab

one and then seeing your video and

others videos on the most like I should

probably get one of these blasters it

kind of feels like the newer generation

of say the knight finder you know maybe

maybe not as much potential but near

that much it seems like from what people

are getting just it mates been like what

a month and people are already making

these things monstrosity z-- that are

$10 plus minimum cost so think about the

reflect six or the destroyer from

Walmart the zero you know sick revolver

that thing with like a simple spring

upgrade that's it we would hit 130 fps

and it's a revolver you can get multiple

shots off of it it's the best world of

both a knife finder and then like a

maverick or a strong-arm put together

right so yeah there that's a really good

point there are kind of more options for

entry-level stuff now as opposed to in

the past we had like the knight finder

as I mentioned and granted yes there

were other platforms and other things

people were doing and homemade was more

kind of the focus back then but having

kind of a myriad of different shells and

blasters that you can work with does

seem like a very inviting landscape for

people to get into and not just feel

like they're doing the same thing that

everyone else is necessarily oh and

there's another part of that too because

think about five years ago right quick

cheer yourself as jeg you are five years

ago in the nerf community how were fly

wheelers we were um in an interesting

space i'll put it that way

actually a lot of money just to get

right there

the faboo strike on the wall is you walk

comes reacting he can't actually see

what I'm pointing at but the point is

that still has the same stuff inside of

it that it did five years ago which is a

stock flywheel cage stock wheels and

stock everything else aside from the

rhino motors that were put in it to over

or to just get some more performance out

of it we didn't have aftermarket wheel

we didn't have aftermarket cages we

didn't have a whole lot of different

options so yes those Rhino motors Kostya

Wow what did Rhino motors cost back then

there were more much more dollars it was

yeah I was gonna say around five or so

bucks if I remember correctly so it

wasn't a ton I can get like 100 FPS out

of a rhino Stryfe basic every oh more

than that 120 130 yeah whoa yeah that's

that's news to me because I was I was

keeping my I was running a strife the

the like v1 fabu strife with stock

wheels stock cage just Rhino motors and

I was getting about 120 s on them and I

was using that up until about two or

three years ago and this was all what we

were testing our competitive king of the

hill format and everything so like it's

a Feist it held up with stuff as you

know newer tech was emerging so I think

the kind of point I'm rambling towards

is that it's easy to look at the

landscape of things and see all the

expensive expensive kind of high tier

builds and everything that you can throw

into a build and be like this is really

pricey this is a lot of money I have to

throw hundreds of dollars at something

to have it be amazing but even maybe you

don't but that leads me directly into

the third part of your entire scheme

here has it become too expensive as a

hobby and that is like a double-edged

sword there because I would actually say

yes and the sole reason for that is five

years ago when we had those vinyl motors

and we were starting to get a hundred

and thirty a hundred and fifty FPS out

of stripes we were just doing good

everything's perfect then we started

getting calibers and then oh no fly

wheelers couldn't hit as hard as

calibers and what started to happen

brushless and now if you go to a war

that has say at 200 FPS cap and you want

a 200 FPS fly wheeler oh man it is so

much money to get up to that point even

if you can get lucky with like a

daybreak we

in a cage and hi crush with Krakens and

stuff like that you're still throwing

money at full auto kits most of the time

or 3d printed blasters with really good

triggers as opposed to a strife FDL

threes all that so calibers aren't

exactly inexpensive you know 120 bucks

for a kid or more if you want to

preassembled one and yeah it does as we

chase that stronger dragon you can no

longer get like a more worthy I would

say an ni sea level blaster just going

to ace with like a retaliate or

something and putting something together

you can get good performance out of it

mind you but to hit that like 200 FPS

dragon to tag that thing it is so much

more money than it used to be because it

just keeps going higher and higher the

threshold goes more and more and people

want to get somewhat near that threshold

or you're just being outperformed at

least that's the logic I would still

argue that somebody like you with a

hundred and 30 FPS Drive could probably

wreck me with a 200 FPS FD l3 that all

depends on the situation the scenario

but the the context or the the idea

understatement I agree the player does

matter just as much or more than the

blaster in most cases so you will be

able to go to a game and if you play

well and play smart and all that you can

make yourself valuable and useful to

your team and just to anyone around it

besides each of it you're there to have

fun let's be real but that actually

you're kind of statement there about not

being able to go to the hardware store

and just put something together that

will be at that highest kind of cat I'm

kind of kind of wanna throw in a

challenge now is anybody watching what

can you build from the hardware store

what is your best from say taking a trip

to a sore home deep or something I'm

curious for like that super affordable

budget but still want to go homemade how

affordable can you make it and get

something at a high end of performance

so I gotta put like 17 asterisks

like a CNC machine or you've got like

you know well that's that's fair a drill

press of a screw a scroll saw and

they're absolute geniuses like captain

slug and whatnot they heard you know

they can hammer out these amazed

blasters out of PVC and cutting Delrin

cutting boards a Home Depot Springs you

know what I mean but oh yeah I know for

a long time I couldn't build a snap bow

I didn't have a drill press I didn't

have anything to really do that and I

didn't even have like the saw to do it

and those are expensive tools I so

expect people to have that kind of stuff

yeah so without the use of say expensive

or more relatively expensive tools like

table saws and drill presses and stuff

like that what can you make we'll put it

that way well that'll mean I've seen

this blaster I swear if and somebody's

gonna blow us away in the comments

immediately I was worried it might have

been captain slug somebody didn't

Wayland for like the easiest homemade

and I think there was like a 200 FPS

like pump snap bow I would not supplies

I drill

I'm definitely I'll look forward to it

hopefully someone would be like you're

idiots in the comments and just drop a

bomb on us and it'll be fantastic no the

real challenge is going to the dollar

store and well that's that's a hard mode

challenge but back on the topic of kind

of the growing expense in our hobby it's

something that I think is a shifting

kind of mindset we started as a very

homegrown homemade kind of hobby where

low cost was kind of the norm for most

things and now we're growing into a more

I hesitate to use this word because I

don't think it's the right word but it's

for the sake of time right now we'll say

legitimate hobby meaning we have

businesses around it we have third-party

industries around it and there's a lot

more options so with that and with that

kind of creativity ingenuity in that

design area comes cost for kind of low

minimum order kind of thresholds for

specialty parts and things like that

small batch type stuff so we see more

more expense go at it but I think the

important thing is for for us to put

things in perspective that just because

those exists don't necessarily mean they

or a necessity for you yes you combined

fto three yes I love my FTL three and

it's my go to competitive blaster but

teammates of mine run duel fishes and

they absolutely tear things up with them

and those are for flywheels are for

flywheel motors for fly wheels and the

cage inside a swordfish shell so that's

not nearly as much in terms of cost so

you can still get there it's just a

matter of what you really want out of

the Hobby so I think that's kind of

where I end up on this it all comes down

to perspective and what you are focusing

on which is why I still a lot of times

when I'm doing a build like the latest

thing I've been working on that double

Liberator shotgun there's no 3d print in

that there's no any I just built it with

putty and hardware store tools and

bolted things together and made a

blaster and that's the part of the hobby

that I enjoy that I like the most and

it's not very expensive it takes a lot

of work a lot of time and a lot of

effort but it doesn't cost as much as

say 3d printing out an entire kit or

worse yet 3d printing out an entire new

blaster and then putting that together

and then putting in all the aftermarket

parts and stuff into it and winding up a

blaster which is super cool and fun it's

just a different aspect like that's

that's the really the best part is

there's so many different avenues

available that whatever you want like

the method you're talking about

that's like mr. nathen approved right

there and then you've got like the more

engineering side of things with all of

the you know product design kind of

stuff and like everywhere in between

those two ends we've got a lot going on

and I love that but with that said I

think this is a good place to ask all of

you what are your thoughts on this topic

this is a discussion and it's not just

between the two of us it's involving all

of you so let us know if you think we're

idiots if you think we're onto something

if there's something we didn't hit

please let us know your thoughts down

below this is something we're hoping to

do with regularity I've I think I ended

well calm

the obvious answers yes wall comes an

idiot so I'm just okay you can't just

put it on you it's on both of us it's on

both of us if that's the case thank you

so much for watching we'll see you in

the next one take care everyone

you