the

Wednesday Webcasts: From Dirty Lines to Bottle Conditioning

i'm gonna get started now because it

looks like everyone's

kind of leveled off the number of people

joining and we've given the poll out so

um but yeah welcome good morning my name

is jacob hoover and i'm the education

experience supervisor here at white labs

and what that means i kind of work with

our projects in education department so

working with professional classes online

classes things with our tasting room

here in san diego

and then i also oversee the taste room

the daily operations of the taster so

today i want to present to you guys a

little talk on

mainly beer service and how

microbial you know growth and

and cleaning and things like that can

impact um the customer experience

we have a lot of beer on tap using

um you know a ton of different e-strains

sometimes wild yeast sometimes bacteria

and it's very

important that we ensure that our lines

are clean

and that we're following the proper

steps in order to provide the best

quality beer

and customer experience so i just want

to give

you know my personal experience on that

and

give you guys some tips you know for the

taste of your own tasting rooms and

things like that

all right so kind of give an overview of

what i'm going to talk about um

the first ball point here you can see it

says you know uh

when you when you're getting a beer at a

bar um i want you to think about

what organisms or you know kind of what

to expect from that port

every time i'm pouring a beer you know

say i order an ipa right

i have expectations of what that's going

to taste like

you know knowing it's an ipa knowing

it's an ale strain it's going to be a

saccharomyces service ca strain you have

expectations

versus when you order maybe a pilsner or

something using a lager string so it's

it's very important to think about this

when evaluating you know beer

quality and uh you know if you're

evaluating your own your cleaning and

your

own draft system and things like that

because

you'll be able to identify if

something's wrong more easily when you

know what to expect

and you know what's supposed to be

coming out of tap

we're gonna talk about the differences

between intentional versus unintentional

organisms so i think this is a good way

to look at it

uh when evaluating beer service and line

cleaning and things like this because

you know a sour beer versus a clean beer

we have we usually talk about clean beer

being

beers that are using either an ale or

lager strain and

not using wild yeast or bacteria

not going to be tasting sour and then

you know sour is going to be using those

organisms but

when evaluating it from an intended

versus unintended it kind of

uh takes that out and you you just

evaluate the beer based on

how it's supposed to taste and you don't

have to really think too much about

you know clean burst sour and things

like that just is this the way it's

intended or this is

is this the way it's unintended and if

it's not intended to be that way then it

probably has an organism that was is not

supposed to be in there

and lastly we'll talk about potential

points of contamination during beer

service so

go over points in the draft system

points

in the draft tower the faucets things

like that where if you do identify a

problem you may want to check

like little gaskets and things like that

are always

good places to look at

all right so why is this important why

do we even need to talk about this well

the biggest point i like to make is that

we spend a lot of you know money on the

brew house money on the ingredients

money on cleaning in the brew house and

all this time and effort learning how to

brew the perfect

the best beer possible and

it's really unfortunate when you go

through all that time and effort and

then

you get to the very last step you just

gotta dispense that beer

and if a problem arises you've pretty

much just

you know lost that entire batch you may

have to dump it or

maybe just it's the line needs to be

cleaned whatever the case may be

but it's uh it's important to really put

the same kind of focus into that very

last step

as you do when you're going through you

know

your mash your water your boil your

fermentation

because you want that that quality

doesn't end right when the beer is caked

right that quality needs to remain

all the way until the customer's glass

to the time they're taking that first

sip

um and finishing that beer so really

look at it

as you know part of the brewing process

in a way

in order to heighten your senses of of

possible issues or potential places of

contamination

um because and also not only

contamination but

you can see you also risking oxidation

poor cleaning

may not cause contamination but it could

cause like low head retention

due to like biomass or beer stone or

water stone

all these things can affect um you know

the way the carbonation

is going to remain in the beer

the way it's going to look in the glass

it might cause turbidity or haze when

it's

not intended it was clear up right and

now it's hazy so

these are all just things that you want

to be aware of because you do put a lot

of

effort and money into these products

the good thing though just to note is

that beer is

relatively stable when we're talking

about food and beverage

it's got a lot of qualities and

attributes that allow it to

remain keep pathogens out keep mold out

and keep most of the organisms that

could spoil it

um out of your product and those few

things would be you know we got we are

working with a low ph in the finished

product you know usually around the low

fours unless it's a sour beer then we're

talking about mid threes and a lot of

pathogens and things like that

will not grow in those ph ranges

there's not a lot of nutrients available

once the beer is finished fermenting you

know

the yeast has now attenuated as far as

it can

it's left a little bit of residual sugar

over but um

that may not be enough to uh trigger

metabolism for a lot of

organisms um you know something to to

notice

you would want to look out for something

like botanic mices because

things that can devour these longer

sugar chains such as dextrins and things

like that

would be able to continue metabolizing

and living in

those in those beers

there is usually a pretty decent alcohol

content in these products

[Music]

so that's going to produce an

unhospitable environment for a lot of

pathogens and

and things that you wouldn't want

there's a lot of co2 in concentration

very low oxygen normally that's ideal

right you want to have as low oxygen in

that beer as possible to prevent

stealing and oxidation as well as we're

using um hops

and i'm sure most of you know that uh

those isomerized alpha acids are very

good at preventing

even some of the organisms that will be

able to grow in your lines and in your

beer

that's kind of when we think of kettle

salads and you don't want to

add too much hops or too much too many

ibus because you want those

those sour organisms to be able to work

in that in that boil kettle you may

add those afterwards that's kind of the

same ideology in the finished product

so let's take a minute to talk about

intended organisms versus unintended um

and all organisms well not all organisms

but a lot of organisms

may be used in some styles and not

others but one used in the right style

they couldn't be intended

and then when maybe if you're using if

you find them in a different style of

beers

like let's use a goose and

a german pilsner for example obviously

the organisms used in that goose to

produce the goose

would not be intended in the german

pilsner but

in this context we want to think if

you're thinking about a goose

you're thinking about all those orgasms

could be intended and that's kind of

what i'm going for here because

um when evaluating doing a beer from

draft

you got to really know you got to really

understand what the organisms in play

are and we understand how to identify

and perceive them using sensory

um so you know we all know the birds

yeast uh

ale and lager strains albeit

saccharomyces cervicia this is what

we're

we're finding in a lot of our products

today in craft beer um

it was the original uh burger strain

before way before

sacramento's pastoring is kind of

hybridized from it and then

we have the passover grounds being the

lager strain

so these are typically what you're

looking for when you're tasting beer

from draft

most breweries are going to be providing

you know ipas

and maybe like an amber and a blonde

things like that and then some form of

lager

helles a pilsner so you're going to be

wanting to understand what these

organisms are going to create in the

finished product

and if you don't identify identify

something that you shouldn't normally

find then

you'll know that something may have

contaminated that line or that keg

the coupler whatever it may be and then

we're also talking about wild use and

bacteria

so while these being britannia mice is

most commonly found when we're talking

about beer service

it's it can remain and and live in

pretty harsh conditions so it's

something you want to look out for and

and then also lactobacillus and

pediacoccus which we'll talk about

these organisms more in a little bit but

um

these bacteria strains also are able to

uh survive and bear pretty well so you

want to identify these and

these could be intended or unintended

depending on whether like i said whether

it's a sour beer or

or supposed to be like a clean beer not

using these organisms

um acetobacter acetobacter is not

usually

an intended organism it can be found in

spontaneous fermentations

maybe some of you know a lot of typical

belgian sour beers

may have some type of acetic character

to it

but we're not typically intending for

this to be in most beer styles

and we'll talk about when you would see

that in beer service and

what it would cause in a few slides

there's a lot of other organisms in beer

but

since our conversation is just strictly

to beer service we'll kind of leave

those out for now

so speaking about attendant organisms

barrel-aged beers is a big one to think

about

when you see a barrel-aged beer or

you're putting in barrel-aged beer on

tap

because there's a big variety of flavor

expectations in these products so

we're talking about sour versus clean

you can think about like

um like i said like a goose or a

flanders red or a flanders brown and a

last example

uh versa bourbon barrel aged stout right

they're going to have very different

flavor characteristics and attributes

imparted by the microorganisms being

used

in those sour beers you're going to

you're going to see a lot of lactic acid

maybe some acetic acid a lot of

protandim ics like esther derived

character

whereas in that bourbon barrel aged

stout a lot of that's going to be malt

derived

character a lot of character from the

bourbon barrels

but not maybe not as much from the

microorganisms being used and if you

were to detect the same

flavor compounds as in one of those sour

beers

you would be able to identify or you

would know that there's something wrong

there's something off in that product

so um you know we're talking about sour

beers there's there's also things to

note

within that category right so

spontaneously fermented beers

beers that have some type of cool ship

are allowing organisms to fall in

from the environment are going to also

have a different flavor character

or flavor characteristics than a maybe a

a secondary fermentation where you're

pitching your own

controlled organism and you're not

letting the environment uh take part

into that product

because having that control you know

what's in it and there's going to be a

lot

less organisms and spontaneously

fermented there could be you know

hundreds of organisms um playing a role

in that product whereas

when you have that control and that

secondary fermentation uh being pitched

with a specific organism then you know

there may only be two or three

different things in that product so

these are things to note when evaluating

them

serving them on tap and things like that

some potential

things to look for in clean beers when

pulling from

a barrel is autolysis can

sometimes be seen and if you've never

experienced a tolerances a great example

of this is

traditional champagne oftentimes you

taste you know the leaves they have this

very kind of

like meaty um sometimes people describe

it as soy sauce and in the wine it comes

off a little bit different

but that's going to be ruptured yeast

cells

when you know in an in hospital

environment with no

form of metabolism going on for too long

and you may want to look at that that

may play a part in the

finished product during beer service

so going on to intended organisms and

bottle conditioning

um this can be really fun if you're

experimenting if you have

uh if you like to capture some organisms

from the wild or maybe play with adding

some

different types of saccharomyces or

butanomic strains at bottle conditioning

bottle conditioning is just where we're

allowing the

the beer to carbonate naturally in

bottle

with some type of yeast or wild yeast

fermenting the a little amount of sugar

to produce

co2 that's not allowed to escape because

it is now capped right

so that's going to diffuse into solution

and it's going to create the carbonation

naturally

rather than using a forced carbonation

method

there's a few ways to do this you can

mix you can essentially cross in or or

take

a beer that's being currently produced

and add a little bit into an older beer

that's

finishing up and that will produce

natural carbonation as it's fermenting

out those last

remaining sugars you can rack the beer

and then add a little bit of sugar and

maybe a little bit of fresh yeast or

allow the yeast that was already in

suspension

to create the carbonation this is very

common in home brewing

or you can partially force carb and then

allow the bottle conditioning a little

bit yeast and sugar

in the end to add that slightly

remaining

co2 vitamin co2 that may be needed so

different ways that everyone has maybe

the best way for their brewery

uh i won't say there's any right or

wrong but it's good to know how

um how the beer was naturally uh

fermented

when serving um if you know if there's

a very small amount of yeast then you

wouldn't have to worry about decanting

or rolling the bottle

um but if there's if you're using a lot

of yeast

and a lot of sugar maybe in this first

or second examples

you would need to know that when serving

that bottle

but the cool thing about using uh

saccharomyces or protein analyses for

bottle conditioning is

it will scavenge oxygen so it will hold

up shelf stability for a little bit

longer and prevent that oxidation

because the yeast will use that as

they're creating that carbonation

it will have some flavor impact over

time depending on which organism you use

a great example of this is orval if

you've ever tasted it fresh

in belgium it's going to be uh it's

going to not have

as much of a britannia yc's character in

that finished product as you would maybe

taste it here

in the states as it ages and sits on the

shelf

um that bread character will become more

evident and impart more of that

that hay that horsey um sometimes you

know fruity esther character

that you get from brett but it is worth

isn't

uh good to know that these will take an

additional time sitting in storage

in warm storage but once you have that

carbonation you will want to chill them

just like any other product

and this is uh this is something to note

for beer service when we're discussing

bottle conditioning beers you know

when i was studying for my certified

system exam this is something that was

very

talked highly talked about on in the in

the study guide and things like that

is you want to understand the style that

you're serving and

of the appropriateness of that bottle

conditioning that yeast in the bottom

um there's they always you know we

always talk about hefeweizen

is that german wheat beer um it's going

to be traditionally bottle condition

and a lot of people they want you to

decant most of the beer

and then swirl in the yeast into the

slightly remaining maybe one or two mil

or two ounces and then pour that on top

of the into the foam

usually you get a nice thick foam on top

of the beer

and that's very different than maybe you

would serve

orval or um about a belgian like a

flanders red or flanders brown

you may want to decant and not have that

uh yeast character impacted into the

finished product so

it is good to know and learn the styles

and what's kind of traditionally done

um what's style appropriate right

so some ways you can

either get the yeast in suspension is to

roll

or swirl or you can just pour it until

you get to the last

ounce and leave it in the bottle but

this will

definitely affect the final flavor

profile of that beer

as well as the body and the mouth feel

if you were to add the yeast

so i want to talk about uh our taste

room in particular you know

i've been working here at white labs for

two and a half years and i started uh

as just a beer tender in the tasting

room um two and a half years ago

and i learned how to work on the drought

system here on site

it was my first experience cleaning

lines

it was my first experience you know

really with fobs

with gas blenders with glycol pump

and it was pretty intimidating i will

say at the beginning there's a lot going

on as you can see in these pictures

we do have a long draw system it's a

little over 100 feet

and we have 32 taps on site

the reason why we have so many taps is

because if you've ever been to the

tasting room

or heard about the way we produce beer

you'll know this but what we do is we

make a 10 barrel batch of wart

or sometimes 20 barrel we have a 20

barrel brew house on site

and then we will split it as we transfer

into either two or four or five barrel

fermenters so we're splitting the same

war patch produced

the same day into multiple fermenters

and doing

which i'm sure a lot of home brewers or

you guys that have homebrewed have done

split it and then pitch two different e

strings into the same wart

we will then um you know they'll go

through their fermentation timeline

we'll keg them separately and serve them

to you separately so you can understand

the differences impacted by the two e

strains

because that's the only variable in that

in that flight

so in order to do that when we're making

say we have 16 different beer styles on

tap we have 32 taps

so there'll be two strains per beer

style it takes a lot of equipment

and a lot of lines to get that all uh

to come to the tasting room so uh

that's what that's kind of our system

and that was pretty gnarly learning that

in the beginning

but as i was like i said i was studying

uh in the very beginning for my

certified cicerone

there's a huge section of the exam on

draft maintenance you have to you know

the draft beer quality manual is is very

helpful when learning as well as when

you're trying to troubleshoot and learn

how to work on a system such as this

so i recommend using that or looking

that up for anyone

that would like to learn more but that's

kind of what helped me learn and what i

realized was

the way the lines were being cleaned and

taken care of at the time

didn't fit exactly with the

recommendations in the sop

in the draft quality the draft beer

quality manual

so um as i as i grew and got into the

education department

and i was able to start training and

writing some sops for the tasting room

i made sure that we took a look at our

draft quality

and our beer clean our line cleaning and

things like this

because there's a lot going on here in

our dr in our draft system

we don't pasteurize our beer as well as

we don't filter any of our products

so we have a lot of yeast um coming into

those lines

and a lot of different yeast strains

sometimes we'll have a beer with

protanomyces or beer with

souring organisms like lactobacillus or

pedococcus

and it takes a little bit extra care and

a little bit extra

time to evaluate the system because it

is just so

large and there's so much that so many

places that something could go wrong so

a little bit harder of a time here uh

with in san diego working with

you know all these different live uh

beers essentially

so because of this sometimes when you

first pour

a beer you'll get a lot of yeast sucked

up into the line and

you'll have to go through a few pints to

get all that this has settled out in the

bottom of the cake out

um it can create inconsistent pores it

can

a beer can clear up over time because

that yeast maybe have still been

flocculating out of suspension

um it i luckily it doesn't really affect

flavor too often but

just from a customer experience and beer

service perspective um

you know it is really something you want

to look out for

that we have had hard time with in the

past

so here's a great example of kind of the

changes that we saw when when we were

going through these

stricter sops and taking a look at our

current processes

maybe about 18 months ago

so if you look at these pictures you can

see what i did was i

i began this new sap following the

correct guidelines from

draft beer quality manual and on the

left was the sediment

in the caustic solution that came out

after our very first proper cleaning

and then two weeks later i cleaned those

same exact lines

i'll go over kind of our cleaning

process in the next slide

and you can see that the solution

cleared up a lot and the color changed

drastically from that

almost copper brown color into this

mountain dew spr kind of lemonade like

color

in the right and that's still maybe a

little too much sentiment for

what we wanted and nowadays when we're

cleaning lines we're seeing

very very clear solution coming out of

tap which is good it showed that

this has been working and that we have

um we have done a better job

but not only that we were seeing

differences in the beer so you can see

in the bottom two pictures

we have the same exact beer poured

before line cleaning was done

we we put it into a growler so i wanted

to note that because that

may have affected the carbonation or the

head retention a little bit it shouldn't

have because it's only about a two hour

difference but

that is a variable in this little

picture diagram

but you can see in the left bottom that

beer on the left

has very little header attention very

little lacing very big bubbles

and that's not what you want from a high

quality beer service right

if i got that at a brewery or tasting

room

i would um question it a little bit just

be it maybe want something

a little bit more robust and less

dispersed

and then on the right you can see the

lacing really well so the lacie on the

left there is some

but the beer on the right has a lot more

and it looks just a lot more appetizing

and probably tasted a little bit better

as well

so these are just fun ways that you guys

can as well

evaluate your line cleaning practice and

how well your lines are doing just see

if you notice any big changes like this

going from before to after it will take

you will

taste a difference for sure

so if you have you start to notice

issues and you think you do have

dirty lines it's good to know what

you're looking for and what organisms

could be

potentially causing these issues and

these three

bacteria strains are genus and species

are going to be the biggest

ones to look out for lactobacillus

is and pediococcus are both lactic

acid-producing bacteria

and they are commonly used in brewing so

we know that they like being in beer

they can withstand that environment so

in lines it's very easy to start getting

biomass buildup

and if you have any sort of

contamination maybe from gas

maybe from when you're changing couplers

changing out couplers

or maybe a keg was contaminated at one

point you missed it during cake cleaning

you can get these in line and they're

very very hard to remove um so

it's worth it to know if you do start

seeing some type of lactic acid or sour

character

in a product that's not supposed to have

this

you may be experiencing these two

organisms

or if um if you're starting to taste

diacetyl pedia caucus could be a big

cause because it will throw off a lot of

diacetyl

acetobacter is more commonly seen near

oxygen it will need

oxygen uh lacto-amputer are facultative

anaerobes so

they will be able to withstand no

environments with no to little oxygen

or with oxygen whereas acetobacter it

needs oxygen to

survive so this is more commonly seen

near faucets or maybe couplers or some

place where

it is able to have some type of ingress

from the outside

of the outside the draft system but

these organisms are tolerant of low ph

and alcohol and they

uh when they metabolize they eat very

little sugars and nutrients so

that's what makes them so easily or so

they spoil so easily in these lines

all right so to go over our um

our cleaning regime here um it's it's

exactly what you'll find in the draft

beer quality manual but

since we do have the long draw system we

do have to undergo a few extra steps

which does a little bit more time and

does make the process

take a little bit longer and a lot of

time each week right so

each week our line cleaning takes up

roughly about six hours because like i

said we have 32 taps

and we can only do eight taps at once

the pump can only withstand

so many feet of line and because we have

a hundred feet

going back to the kegs it's about our

max

so we're doing uh two two cleaning

sessions a week um

so that will give us every every eight

lines will be cleaned every two weeks

if we follow that properly you can see

in the top left photo that's our uh

cleaning our beer cleaning pump we have

it in sullivan keg that's where we'll

hold the caustic solution

we use about an entire bottle every time

we use every time we clean lines

and then we'll have a second salomon

cake full of cold water to do

that final flush we have our

hose lines connecting our jumper lines

connecting the

shanks to each other in the top right

picture and then that bottom picture you

can see the

the dual flushers where you attach two

couplers uh make sure to not engage them

and this will connect the loop so

essentially we're just creating one big

loop

and that pump will just be continuously

pulling caustic from

the cylinder keg pushing into that first

line and then it will eventually exit

that last line

so yes this time this process is pretty

timely

but we will we will perform call sig

every two weeks and then

as well as during that time we'll be

cleaning the faucets using a little bit

of that caustic solution

um disassembling them putting back

together uh and then we're sure

now to do acid cleaning quarterly

couplers quarterly and disassembling the

fobs

which is a is a big day and takes up a

lot of time for us because we have 32

fobs 32 couplers and we're making sure

that we get acid through all 32 lines

so um it's important to discuss some of

the ways you can you can identify these

issues

you need to know right first step you

need to know if something's wrong

and then second step you need to know

what it is or why it's wrong

and some ways to do this the main way is

sensory evaluation

so we have a sensory program here at

white labs that we

we go through beers once a week and we

evaluate either you know just

descriptive and hedonic for new beers

that are coming on

um to make sure that they're up to our

standards but also

we will evaluate older beers to ensure

that they're still tasting right

um no oxidation or very little as they

age

as well as know all flavors coming from

the draft system

it's really cheap and easy and you don't

need a lot of people to do evaluation

for

for draft system issues if you just have

a few trained staff members

even just a trained staff our trained

beer tender that can identify these

these flavors they can just go through

every once i'll taste a few ounces and

ensure that everything's

up to par but what you want to look out

for if you are

looking for issues in the draft system

is oxidation diacetyl lactic acid and

acetic acid

oxidation is going to occur you know

over time no matter what

but you can if you're having a beer

scale very quickly

you may want to go over the draft system

because it may mean that

if you have a lot of different

connections

from maybe barrier tubing to uh

to restrictors or to your drop lines

things like this

there's going to be gas gaskets in each

of those connections

and these can wear over time which may

be causing ingress of oxygen

aggressive potential spoiling organisms

things like that

so look out for that diazo like i said

earlier

you may have a pedia caucus issue um in

your lines if you're seeing a lot of

diacetyl throne

if it's not at bright or in keg and then

you're seeing a lot of it on

on draft lactic acid will also be from

lacto

pedia caucus like i mentioned earlier um

it's worth it no if you are seeing these

characters you have

you're going to have a really high

bacteria or microbial load

so that means that you have had this

problem growing for

a long period of time it didn't just

appear overnight so you may want to do

excess cleaning

and clean more often than every two

weeks for the first few um

a few times after noticing this issue to

ensure that it's completely

gone and then see you guys like i

mentioned earlier from the acetobacter

that would be maybe more from the

couplers or the faucets so make sure

you're cleaning those

and then if you want to get real

technical and you can't figure out you

know what's wrong or what's causing your

issue but you keep having it

every time you put a new brand on tap

it's where there's no you can

send it into a lab we have used our lab

for

identifying things with our job system

and other people's

beer service as well in the past our

analytical lab will provide services for

plating and

organism identification here in san

diego

so you can plate some beer you know from

tap

we can use microscopy graham staining to

identify

exactly what genus it is that's causing

this

or even go as far as qpcr and get very

specific

to find out the best way to deal with

that problem

so um so yeah the point of this talk you

know in conclusion is

is fear service is very important and we

should take

a lot of time to evaluate

our methods for cleaning our methods for

beer service training our staff to

be able to identify if issues occur and

and the reason is because like i said we

have spent a lot of time effort and

money into making the best product that

we can possibly make

and it's uh it would be a shame for that

to

to be ruined because of very little

things that could be prevented if

those sops and those methods for

detection are in place

and once you have those in place it

makes the whole process

much much easier things should stay

pretty in line if you are following

these

small little uh checkpoints along the

way consistently

and you know knowing knowing your brands

really well

knowing their shelf stability knowing um

you know the style appropriateness like

i mentioned

like with barrel-aged beers and things

like that will

will make that process just that much

easier so

um you know draft line cleaning and uh

and beer service you know are very

important because you want that customer

to have the best experience possible

so with that said um i appreciate you

guys all for joining in

i'm happy to answer any questions you

may have um

this will be recorded and put on our

white labs youtube channel as well as

all of our other previous wednesday

webcasts will also be available

on our youtube channel channel as well

in case you want to catch up and see any

of those

it looks like we have one question here

uh asking for what a fob is so

fob is an acronym for foam on beer and

uh

essentially it's a cylinder in between

your

drop line so the lines going from if it

was a short draw system

the the line would go strictly from the

keg

to the tap to the faucet the shank

but in a long draw system you have your

drop line going into

what's called a fob and what this does

is inside the cylinder you have this

little plastic

floating device kind of like a bobber in

fishing

and when the beer when the cake kicks

that fob will drop and it will prevent

any beer from continuing to go through

the line

because if it wasn't there the beer

would be continued push

to be pushed by the co2 all the way from

the keg to the faucet

and then you would now have a hundred

plus foot line

that is completely empty and so what it

does is it prevents that from happening

and

all that beer in the uh drop line will

now be

pressurized and held there as you change

kegs and that that will allow you to

continue to serve that that beer

and that that brand from tap so it just

kind of conserves beer and helps you

save that

and it also balances pressures and

things like that as well

any other questions

all right we have a question asking um

what better way to clean aluminum cans

before filling

and packaging here we use okay so

i'm not going to answer that just

because i uh like this comments

this talk was more regarding post

packaging and

that would be a question better suited

for our head of brewing

operations joe crowski so

if you'd like to send me an email to my

email on the slide i'll be happy to

direct that question

to um to our brewing team

i just don't feel comfortable answering

that because i don't have as much

experience in the packaging process

oh awesome thank you for sending your

email i'll be sure to reach out

awesome guys if we don't have any other

questions thank you so much for joining

me this morning

and i hope you guys all have a great day